March 23, 2009

  • The Prayer of a Desperate Agnostic

    Oh God in Heaven, Creator of the Universe, hear my earnest plea.

    I don't know if you exist or not.  Everything in my mind tells me that there is no evidence for your existence, that the belief in a god as an explanation for the unexplainable is irrational.  From all my reading and understanding, this seems to be the primary reason why any sort of religion came into being, and why many people still believe in you and follow religion today.  Yes, I see things around me I can't explain, but people centuries before me once attributed things to a god for which we have perfectly realistic explanations for today excluding a deity.  Without a doubt, many of the things I cannot explain today will one day be explainable throughout the progress of humanity, as we learn more about the world and universe around us.  Does this mean that you were not necessarily involved in the process somehow?  Not at all.  You may have set things in motion to let us decide our own fates, curiously watching as we learn and grow into greater understanding.  But then again, you may not exist at all.  We may just be some cosmic accident, somehow developing consciousness and sentience despite all odds.

    There is really no way of knowing if you exist or not without you revealing yourself to us in a way that we can all understand.  Of course, if you do not exist this would be impossible.  How can one expect to hear or see something from a being that does not exist?  If you do exist, yet do not interfere with the progression of events on our world, then such a revelation would go against your strict policy of non-interference and would therefore taint the results of your cosmic "experiment."  I say "experiment" with all due respect.  I do not mean to insinuate that you treat us like lab rats or salivating dogs; I merely mean that you have a great deal of curiosity, a quality (I believe a good quality) that has rubbed off on us, your creations.  There are many who say you have already revealed yourself to us through sacred religious texts, and if you are indeed proactive within our society then perhaps you did.  But there are so many different religions out there who claim to have your words to us.  How do we know which of them (if any) are true?  I suppose it is possible that all of them contain some form of message from you, yet the followers of each insist that their belief system is the only correct belief system.

    Oh God, there have been many people throughout history (and are today) who have waved banners of religion and done horrible things in that name.  There have been inquisitions, holocausts, jihads, holy wars, and crusades all waged in the name of religion.  If any of these people do carry your true words, they certainly don't seem to care too much about who they trample in their path.  How many billions throughout human history have been killed by the sword of religion?  Much of this seems to derive from the mutually exclusive properties that the religions in question share, believing that since their belief system is the only correct one they must abolish any other dissenting belief system.  Many of these religions claim that they do what they do out of love, saying that since their way is the only way they must remove anything that might lead people astray.  They use fear tactics, manipulation, and even warfare, whatever is necessary to convert people.  They believe that doing whatever it takes to further their belief system is for the greater good, because it will remove all heresy and will win more people over to the "right" way of thinking in the long run.  But is it really worth it?

    God, if you do exist, surely you had a reason for creating us other than just to watch us suffer.  The very act of creation alone is an expression of curiosity and love, so I find it hard to believe that you would go to the effort of creating us just to find ways to make us miserable.  Therefore, I find it hard to believe that you would reveal yourself in the form of religion, knowing full well how many would suffer and die as a result.  I have personally been witness to some horrible atrocities done in the name of religion that have left people dead or scarred for life.  There are many out there who have rejected a belief in religion or any form of God because of the traumatic experiences they have faced.  Will you truly punish these victims, forcing them to endure a second "Hell" after the "Hell" they have already faced in this life, all because they didn't believe (with good reason)?  How can this possibly be justified?  In general, how can such pain and tragic loss of life be for the "greater good?"  Could you not foresee what religion would ultimately lead to, that believers would torture and kill each other just to further their cause?  A reasonable explanation is that you could not foresee what would happen, meaning that - for all your powers - you still have limitations just like us.  Or perhaps the true revelation (if it exists) is not to be found in religion at all.  Then again, perhaps the very idea that you even exist was postulated and/or manipulated by those in power so that they might control people.  Perhaps the initially innocent belief in a god that doesn't exist grew way out of hand.  Regardless of the reason, I find it difficult to believe that any religion truly carries your message, at least not in the form that you intended.

    This brings us back to the initial question of what your true message is, if there is even one to be found.  I have spent many years painstakingly searching for answers, desperately trying to find some truth amidst all the strife and conflicting opinions.  Yet, for all my efforts, it seems the deeper I dig the more questions I encounter.  Will I ever find the right answers to these questions?  Perhaps some of them, but probably not all of them.  Yet religion insists that my eternal destination rests on finding the correct answers, which is considerable pressure to find the correct answers to life's toughest questions in the limited time I am alive on this Earth.

    God, if you do exist, I am trying my best.  I don't know if I will come up with the right answers or not in my lifetime, but please bear with me.  I am doing the best I can to live a good life and find the right answers to these questions, using the tools that you gave me to determine what that is, yet I fear I will still end this life with unresolved questions.  All I know is at my disposal is the experiences I have in this life, and even then there are times when too much stimuli cloud my judgment.  There is so much confusion in my mind and I have a hard time sometimes distinguishing what is true and false.  If I die under a belief system that is false, please have mercy on me.  It is not my intention to displease you.  It is actually quite to the contrary because I am doing what I can to be what you created me to be.

Comments (110)

  • This is so good!  Lots of excellent thinking here.  One line really stuck out to me:  "Therefore, I find it hard to believe that you would reveal yourself in the form of religion"  I agree.  Religion is mostly man-made.  It is a formula, an attempt to put a box around God, to define this undefinable being. 

    Your second to last paragraph is especially thought-provoking to me.  " Yet religion insists that my eternal destination rests on finding the correct answers"  That's exactly why religion fails--the answers to some of those questions are just not comprehensible to our minds.  You are so right that the deeper we dig, the more questions we find.  Every answer tends to unearth more questions--that's the nature of an infinite God.

    "I am doing the best I can to live a good life and find the right answers to these questions, using the tools that you gave me..."  What about using the tool of surrender?  It's not an easy one to actually implement, because we tend to disbelieve that it's a tool at all.  However, it's the only way that we can abide in God, remain in his love, (John 15:1-17) and bear fruit.  Without that, we are only running in circles, trying desperately to find answers that aren't there.

    One sentence that I thought was curious was "people centuries before me once attributed things to a god for which we have perfectly realistic explanations for today excluding a deity. "  Except that even the basic building blocks of everything are completely unexplainable.  Like how in the world does an atom work?  What causes the charges that hold it together?  How did the earth begin rotating around the sun?  We know what IS, in those instances, but the WHY is completely without explanation.  There are theories, but no evidence.  I honestly don't think any explanation, when taken back to the ultimate basics, can exclude a deity.

    Anyway, I really like the way this is written--thanks for sharing it. 

  • This is the most honest and beautiful thing I've read in awhile. Thanks for sharing.

    I tend to turn to Scriptures since I do continually manage to find value in the Christian tradition. And I'm not sure I see anything that indicates that everything depends on having the right answers. I see statements such as "seek and ye shall find" -- doesn't say that we will find immediately, or even in this lifetime. It's the seeking that is important. The asking of questions and the finding of new ones. And, perhaps, reaching that point that you indicated of realizing the need for mercy.

    Mercy and grace are hard for me to wrap my head around, but I have deep gratitude for both. And they both tend to fit my image of a curious God who would create a huge and magnificent world for the pure joy of it.

  • This was amazing!  Rec'd!

    "Yet, for all my efforts, it seems the deeper I dig the more questions I encounter.  Will I ever find the right answers to these questions?  Perhaps some of them, but probably not all of them.  Yet religion insists that my eternal destination rests on finding the correct answers, which is considerable pressure to find the correct answers to life's toughest questions in the limited time I am alive on this Earth."

    I hope you find your answers, or at least peace for the unanswerables.  I know I have an overflowing vault of questions myself.  We never have all the answers, as with anything in life, as I'm sure you know (*dryly* regardless of how many people pretend to have them all).

    And I'm sorry for the idiots at ReveLife.  I sometimes wish I could set the place on fire.  I feel it does more harm than good.  :(  

  • Very nicely done.

  • Truely good post.

  • I think you are doing a fine job, friend. What it came down to for me was answering the first question first. God are you really there? Answer that one and the rest of them are much easier. If there is no God then the other questions are kind of pointless. If there is a God and He is truly God then it becomes His job to reveal the answers to the questions, doesn't it.

    I am proud of you, friend. Keep searching. I believe there is an answer to the questions.

    Old Hat

  • Described what I feel so accurately it's a little uncanny.  As with you, I am agnostic and there is a constant battle between my reason which says God logically doesn't exist, and my spiritual side which wants to believe in something.  I can't even make up my own mind and there's no box for my beliefs - they change almost daily.  Thanks so much for writing this.

  • If he does exist, I don't think he would be too upset with you for questioning him and searching for your answers. If he wanted us to just know, I would think that we would have been created with the knowledge already. We would not have the ability to question God at all.

    I'm firmly agnostic as well. I don't know whether God exists or not, and I don't know if I will ever know what is "true" in my mind. Good luck in your journey, and I hope you get it all figured out in time!

  • Good post.

  • You seem to be a very thoughtful person, which is a great thing.  I highly recommend you read The Reason for God by Timothy Keller.  In it, Keller gives thoughtful consideration to many of the presuppositions you've posited here.

  • This was amazing.
    You know God can work through people, right? Right now I feel like God wants me to open a door for you to find the answers.
    Have you ever  heard of the Divine Principle? Without having any concepts, I think you should read it. There was one man dedicating his life to desperately finding those answers and is still. The Divine Principle is what he found to be true of this universe, this cosmos. And it answers your questions if your willing to really read and understand it. But it is what I've found to be true because it just makes so much sense!
    This world could not have been some random accident. That is impossible. See how our bodies were designed? DESIGNED. Look at an airplane over billions of years, I don't think it could ever randomly appear. It has a design and a purpose. All the parts that make up an airplane can't just suddenly come together in a way that makes a functioning machine that can launch people into the sky and fly. It was designed and made that way.
    There is a reason humans are not a typical animal. We are spiritual beings with bodies. Our physical bodies are like our homes while we're on earth. Earth is where we prepare ourselves for where we will go for eternity--the spirit world. FOREVER. Once you die, you can't have another life on earth. So our life on earth is our judge for what happens in the spirit world. It's our training ground to learn to love. You are your own judge. God doesn't judge you.
    God never wanted religion. Religion is man-made. I hate to say it, but it's true that humans have become disconnected with their creator and father, God and have become people who Satan could claim. That's why we don't believe, that's why we don't feel Him. God is waiting to have His children back. And the more conflict and suffering He sees in the world, the more pain He feels.
    People don't want to hear you tell them their beliefs are wrong. The mindset today is "People can do whatever they want. It's their life, and as long as their happy, it's ok." I hear this all the time. But they don't even think to consider that what they do hurts God and goes against their purpose.
    Imagine if you bought someone a very expensive sets of art pencils. They say "oh thanks, I needed fire wood." Wouldn't it hurt you to see him use them for the purpose of fire wood instead of drawing? It's the same with God. He created us and gave us this world and our physical bodies, yet we don't even see our purpose. We are not living the way God intended us to live, yet we are blaming Him because the world is messed up. That's not God's fault. That is are fault. We are burning art pencils!!
    I hope you can really try to grasp what I'm saying. I see that you are seeking and I really want to help you.
    There's just so much I want to say! My heart is exploding to share with you!!
    Thank you for reading this if you did.
    I truly hope you can come to the point of feeling God.
    Don't give up seeking!

  • "those who seek find."

    Keep searching.

  • good luck on your search

  • Omigoodness, all atheists/agnostics say the same sob speech. It's just getting annoying now.

  • You wrote:  "God, if you do exist, surely you had a reason for creating us other than just to watch us suffer.  The very act of creation alone is an expression of curiosity and love, so I find it hard to believe that you would go to the effort of creating us just to find ways to make us miserable."  I reply, per the Holy Bible, God did not create us to suffer, what He created was good.  Mankind rejected God, hoping to make himself 'just like god'.  We suffer because we reject God and His love.  Yet, God's love in the atonement of Christ Jesus' death for us demonstrates His continued love.  That is Christianity, in a nutshell.  Not what we do that saves us, but what God has done for us. I realize that some here will reject this, or explain it away as some fable, yet that is the doctrine which answers your query, so I post it. 

  • I love this and have NO DOUBT that God will reveal himself to you in ways that you need in time...I have come to find that HE LOVES honesty...in fact the biggest changes I've gone through and times I've really understood God is when I've just put it all out there as honestly as it is inside of me. I sometimes freak people out when I get mad at God or cry too much or ask many questions-- but, do you know, I've kept a journal to God for a couple of years now full of questions-- and the way He has answered has been amazing.

    Anyway, this comment is not about me. I totally loved your blog. It was so honest and real. I absolutely love it. I love honesty.

  • Great, honest post--I am what you would call a devout Christian, and we wrestle with these same questions. I hope you find your answers, and peace to let the ungraspable remain ungraspable. 

  • This is amazing.  I don't understand why people are afraid to admit that they don't know all the answers...  All my life, those three words "I don't know" seem to have been "no-no" words...  No one likes to hear them, but more often than not, it's simply true.

    @mansei - have you been around for millions and millions of years?  If not, I find it hard to believe that you or any other human being could possibly have any kind of grasp on what is and what is not truly possible.  And maybe you're right and a God DID create us, but why does it have to be your God?

    And it IS very much a religion...  Even people with so called "personal relationships with Jesus" do and say horrid things in God's name, so the "not a religion" argument doesn't fly with me.  And plus, where are the words "relationship with Christ" found in the Bible?  Christians made that up...  I wonder why?  It wouldn't be to make them *gasp* feel better  and be happier about their religion, would it?  You seem to have such a problem with people who just want to feel good and be happy with their lives, you'd be blind not to see that Christians have turned the RELIGION into what THEY want it to be throughout the ages.

    And on the pencil thing...  if they needed fire-wood more than they needed art pencils, then what's it matter?  I bought the pencils for them, and they can damn-well do what they want with them.  They could use them to jerk off for all I care, or they could not use them at all.  Why should I jurisdict what they do with something that I GAVE to them (meaning it is now theirs and not mine)?

  • I see what you did there

  • HEY, this is an amazing post and it is so sincere. I actually am a believer of God and I understand what you mean. Sometimes, I sit and wonder How If. How if I die and there is no God. How if I die, and I find myself standind in the middle of nowhere trapped, realizing that all this I believed in for so many days and years is all a lie and non-existent? How If.
    But then I realize and look at this world and how unexplainable it is that I know there is a God. I believe we didn't just come from science. We've been created and molded so perfectly, it's almost as if we've been planned. We are a plan!! 
    I believe that God will not reveal himself for people to be convinced that he exist. At least for me, that is what it takes for me to believe and have faith in him. I do not want to have to see. Because that's too technical. And it is obvious, the only time that people will believe is because if he's standing there infront of us performing supernatural stuff. It is like trusting your sister or your brother or your mother or father or friend or wife or husband that they care  about you and are thinking about you. You believe they do because that's what they say and you know it, you don't have to see it infront of your eyes.
    " So Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.” "
    http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=John+4

    And sometimes people ask how do people like me who believe in God know there is God if there's too much war and little children dying everyday. In my opnion, why would I think that this world is a much better place than heaven? Heck, i think that everyone should be dead just so that no one has to suffer here on earth.  And if we have to suffer to our death, then what is the big deal when the Son of God had to go through the worst? 
    This world has turned into a garbage. People like me turned it into garbage and it revolves around superficial stuff. So why would I wanna live in it?

    As you can see I am probably one of the most stupidest GOd Believer to believe in God. I don't read the bible or pray everyday, I even had to search for this quote I posted just now to your blog. (Well, I've read it once and I couldn't remember where it is from but here it is!)  But my point is, I am happy where I am. I don't have the best situation in this world but I would never trade places with anybody else because I am thankful for the challenges and obstacles I had to and go through in life because I think, it made me a stronger person. It helped me believe that there is God because even if I do not have the best things in the world, at least I have something to eat and a roof above my head and to me that is all that matters and I know that there are people out there in the world who are much more unfortunate than my situation but I say, they are the bravest people in the world.
    Anyway, long speech but that is my opinion.

  • 'The very act of creation alone is an expression of curiosity and love, so I find it hard to believe that you would go to the effort of creating us just to find ways to make us miserable.'

    You have a much clearer picture of who God is then you might realize. This statement alone proves it. His character was clearly on display with creation, and you captured it very will in this statement.

  • This is really, very beautiful. As an agnostic myself, I often find myself asking the same questions.

  • good post. I too am trying to work this shit out.

  • I've thought this too! Like, every single part.  If you want to read my post on facebook, some of it has to do with this.  I don't assume anything, I just question, question...we could do that forever, couldn't we?

    But it really upsets me that my propounding various ideas, none of which i strongly endorse at all, OFFENDED people.  Really, it's just...sick.  Makes me realize even if I were a Christian, I wouldn't want to identify with them and some of the weak mindedness I see in them. Guess none of the ones I knew ever thought enough to be where I am.  I wonder if any know truly why they believe what they believe, or do they believe simply because they want to...or NEED to?there's always the crutch idea...meh.
    Anyway, I say a condensed prayer like this. And I address it "to whom it may concern." Hahaha.  It's like, "I don't know who you are, if you're there, or what your role is...and I basically don't know anything at all.  Just please understand that you (possibly?) gave me thought and I"m using it.  And it leads me to a stand still.  No questions can be answered with my limited understanding.  Sorry. If you're out there, find me and help me."
    I don't know. I just don't want to be fucked over in an afterlife for using my brain =/

  • Its all a matter of faith, hope and life experience.

  • you should take a deeper look into existentialism...

    God and christianity is actually a lot closely tied with existentialism  than most people think.

    a lot of people associate existentialism with atheism b/c most existentialists were atheists, but in reality, existentialism was founded on the works of a christian philosopher

    one of the  basic beliefs is that the world and meaning of life is irrational. It can't be wholy comprehended by the human mind. God is also irrational. He exists and works on principles higher than logic and rationalism. existentialism also believe in free will. humans have the free will to choose God or reject him.

    Keep seeking. You're doing fine.

    This reminded me of Dostoevsky.

    Good luck.

  • belief in a higher power is personal. I believe that if you discipline yourself to seek, you will find...eventually. The principals/guidelines to find them are all around you. It begins with relationships,openmindedness,unconditional love,forgiveness,gratitude,service.

    good luck

  • I recommend a good book to help with all these questions. It's perfect for anyone with an open mind like yourself. The name of it is -  I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist - by Dr. Norm Geisler and another writer of whom his name fails me at this moment. God belss.

  • I really like your post. I am a follower of Christ, in the way that I believe He was God and Man.

    The thing I appreciate about Christianity is that although many who have claimed to be Christians over the years have not acted like it, Christ Himself was a teacher of good. He won people to Him through love and caring.
    I struggle with many things like suffering, multiple religions all thinking they are right, etc, and sometimes I feel like I am reaching out to nothing. Most often though, I believe God is waiting for me to trust Him. I am coming to a point in my life where I cannot explain something about Him or about the world, and after worrying over it for a while, I have to say - OK God, You say that You know better than I do, and if You're omniscient and all, I believe it. So I trust what You're doing. Trusting first seems to yield good results. Trusting always is something I will still need to work on, quite a lot I think... Anyway, it seems like you are already reaching out in prayer. Now, I would advise: speak up, and say that you trust God to show Himself to you. He knows you've been searching. Sit back, breathe, and let Him seek you out.
    I wish you blessings and encouragement, and the friendship of the loving God. :)

  • Good thoughts here. I love how honest and real your writing is. You can almost feel the same feelings you are writing about. You're talking about wanting the answers. The answer is 42, everyone knows that. Or maybe we aren't supposed to know the answers.

    CALVIN: Know what I pray for?

    HOBBES: What?

    CALVIN: The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference.

    - Everything I ever needed to know, I learned from Calvin and Hobbes.

  • Oh and about your headline, if happiness is fleeting then that makes it all the more special, we appreciate it more, remember it forever. Here is another good quote:

    "A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part
    limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and
    feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical
    delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
    us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
    persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison
    by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures
    and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

    -Albert Einstein

  • If a person called themselves a sculpter because they put two lumps of clay together, would you say the same? Just because a person calls themself a Christian doesn't always mean they are. Just because they say God is talking to them, telling them to do what they are doing doesn't mean He is. How then can you believe?

    It is belief in God. God is, and He loves, and He lives- in a way we can't fully understand. Everyone has questions, Christians alike. I personally keep an open mind, I pray for guidance. We are not saved by our works, we are saved by accepting Jesus into our hearts- because he has paid for our sins. We can't. But being filled with the Holy Spirit compels me to find answers, to do the right thing, to hear God's voice.

    If there hadn't been religion, there would have been some other "reason." People will find any reason to do what they please and what they want. To gain power over others.

    That's the thing... God gave us free will. To embrace Him and His teachings... or not. Even to use His name for things He didn't intend. It is our greatest gift. It is what can lead to our salvation but also our demise. God, for His own reasons, has let us become what we would become. Flaws and perfections. He loves, and I'm sure He hurts when we are terrible to each other. But to make us stop would be to take away our free will.

    I don't know why God has chosen to let us have choices. I don't know why He put us here. I don't know why He made the decisions He did. I don't have to know. I don't have to know all the answers to my questions now, or before I die. I have faith. With all the answers, I wouldn't need faith to get me through.

    It's ok to question- I think it's good to question. If God didn't want us to question, why wouldn't he make the answers clear as day? I think it's when you close your mind, and get stuck in your thinking that you allow for things to cloud God talking to you. Keep on asking, keep on discovering... I just prayed for you right now that God might help you. And that He might help me to be an example and work through me.  I hope you find a place that is less troubled, a place where God can work in your life and make it better.

  • you mean "WHAT I BELIEVE YOU CREATED ME TO BE"....

    and that's pretty much all you can really say, if you think about it.

  • this is lovely.

  • Hey George!

    I don't normally comment on posts... I don't check xanga that often in general, but I wandered here through the "featured content" on the xanga homepage. Your title for this blog caught my eye and so I ended up reading.

    Thanks for sharing your prayer, thoughts, feeilngs... I feel like the key of all you were sharing is when you said "There is really no way of knowing if you exist or not without you revealing yourself to us in a way that we can all understand." That's so totally true...and from what I've seen to be true, it's the best place to start. "God, are You real?" And if so, "God, who have you shown yourself to be apart from my own thoughts of you?"

    I kinda blogged about this here, but I wanted to share a quote with you that I've enjoyed recently...

    "What matters supremely, therefore, is not, in the last
    analysis, the fact that I know God, but the larger fact which underlies
    it – the fact that he knows me. I am graven on the palms of his hands. I am never out of his mind.
    All my knowledge of him depends on his sustained initiative in knowing
    me. I know him because he first knew me, and continues to know me. He
    knows me as a friend, one who loves me; and there is no moment when his
    eye is off me, or his attention distracted from me, and no moment,
    therefore, when his care falters. This is momentous knowledge. " (Packer,
    Knowing God, 41-42)

    There is a God and He has revealed himself in the world as one who knows you completely and loves you deeply..and the amazing thing is that as much as you think you've been searching for him, he's been desiring for you to know him infinitely more.

    - Faith

  • I pray my God surrounds you in His love and reveals Himself to you. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that He loves you so much. May your eyes see Him and your heart accept Him when He comes. He will not abandon one who cries out for Him. 

  • You're going through what most all of us do....just keep trying to find the answers while being the good person you are.  Don't let the past history of the 'Religious Fanatics' who killed in the name of God deter you.  After all, they were religious in name only....if they would have been true believers - they would not have killed one of God's creations.  It doesn't matter what religion you believe in...it just matters that you believe and the burden of these questions will be lifted...GREAT POST!!

  • *sigh*
    I get this all too well.

  • I am also an Agnostic Theist, and I struggle with these questions the most of everyday. I'm so glad you posted this. :) Great post!

  • Just as there is an artist behind a painting or an author behind a book, there is a God that created us.  There is no way we can stand on a huge ball that is spinning around a ball of fire at such a speed and then say "This is normal".

    As many other people said before, religion is man-made.  It's not a religion, it's a relationship.  It's not about works or deeds, it's all about Christ.

    I hope you come to peace with this. :)      

  • ride the fence all you want
    "if you are not with me then you are against me"

  • Thank You for this post.

    I think its very healthy to have these questions. I cannot condone people who swallow knowledge without chewing it first. Thinking about it, and forming personal opinions are key.

    I hope you find your way, whichever path that may be.

  • Very well spoken.

    As an agnostic atheist I've always thought that if there is a God that he would have to be the "voyeur" type.

    I could never understand the followers need to tell a man he will go to hell, and still say their God is good. What kind of good God would sentence a man for "trying"?

  • if anything, God logically and rationally exists.  it's why He doesn't reveal Himself on this earth that makes it hard.  all logical and rational lines of thought point to some supernatural creator.

  • It seems extremely likely to me, that God is a concept people created and continue to believe in out of ignorance and insecurity. People prefer a reality they can understand, and too often, that means denying the truth because one finds it too confusing, or too unpleasant. If the reality of one's insignificance to the universe, of the universe's inability to give a shit what becomes of the entire human race, let alone any given individual, is too much to handle, and it's understandable that it might be, one might fantasize that a kind of parental figure exists, who cares about each and every one of us, and that we're going to live forever, in some manner.

    But, maybe there is a God. Like you, my disbelief is not due to opposition to God, it's just that there is no rational reason to believe. Plenty of people love to tell us how important it is to find God, to believe in God. Some even threaten us with eternal damnation. Well...he's God, right? All-powerful? All-knowing? So, if he is there, he can let me know he exists any time he wants to. There are plenty of ways to let me know in a manner I will understand and accept. I don't hide in an obscure location, and then expect people to find me. I understand that and accept the responsibility of introducing myself to people who I want to know me, even with my infinitely inferior mortal brain. I can't imagine an all-knowing being would fail to grasp such a concept. So I remain confident that, if there is a God, he understands why I don't believe, and has no problem with it. He has yet to tell me otherwise, and I'm not about to grant blind faith to people who claim to be speaking on his behalf. For the same reason I wouldn't provide my PIN number to a person who emailed me, claiming to be doing so on behalf of my bank.

  • @vi3tgolfgurl - That there is a creator behind things we know were created does not mean there is a creator for everything in existence.

    "There is no way we can stand on a huge ball that is spinning around a ball of fire at such a speed and then say "This is normal"." What's abnormal about it, exactly? What is the normal alternative you're comparing our current situation to? For that matter, what do we know of "normal"?

  • I love this post.  I used to think the same things for the past two
    years, I am twenty.  I didn't really grow up in the church but I did go
    sporadically.  I considered myself an existentialist and then an
    agnostic, but always between the two.

    After searching, and pursuing, and doubting, because there's a lot of
    doubt! (A LOT OF DOUBT, but you know what it's like), I decided to
    suspend my disbelief and go all in.  The thing is with anything you
    devote yourself to, you'll know if it's right or not.  You'll
    know if what you have is true or not, you'll be able to smell the dead
    rat quickly, if you can put it that way. 

    Eight months later, I have grown leaps and bounds mentally and
    spiritually, and I see religion and other things differently, though I am not
    culturally irrelevant, nor did I commit intellectual suicide.  Sure, I
    don't know all the answers, but who does?  The fact that you are seeking shows you know more than you already do. 

    I'm sure you hate it when people quote scripture, because I know I did!, but there's one verse that I would really like to encourage you with:

    "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. "

    DO NOT STOP SEARCHING--whether you find God or not, I hope you can have solid faith in whatever you choose to believe..but you'd probably guess I'd hope you find Him. 

  • Before I talk to someone I always make sure they really exist. That way I don't look crazy. It is so embarassing. There I am sounding off to someone and someone else asks me who I'm talking too. Then I start to wonder if the person who asked me who I am talking to is really the one who isn't real. Then I tell them I am an agnostic and that I'm not sure who I'm talking too or if they really exist. Then the second person disapears real fast. Which makes me wonder. Does anyone really exist. Am I real? Maybe the person I am talking too is real and I'm not. Then I get confused and my lips disapear.

    So how do I make sure someone is real?  I ask to see their drivers lisence. I figure the Dept. of Motor Vehicles isn't going to lie and isue imaginary I.D.s. It takes real cash to get one of those and imaginary people don't have real jobs that pay.

    So I checked Jesus' I.D. There is more written evidence of him than there is written evidence of the Roman Emperor Augustus of that time from both christian and non-christian historians. So if he is real, the dudes dad must be real. But I kind of doubt the Roman Emperor Augustus was real. After all, the last statue I saw of him, his lips were missing.  

    Of course you realize I am just kidding. There just isn't anything one can say to prove the existance of God to a non believer. Heck. Most of the Muslem world doesn't believe the Holocaust happened in spite of solid evidence. So solid evidence really isn't the issue if there are underlying issues.

    The major underlying issue to me is "religion". If there is one true God then there can only be one truth. Not many truths. So if there is only one truth there can only be one true "religion". Within that one true religion there can be many false doctrines and worshipers. Which makes agnostisism so appealing. Except that I would rather seek truth and never find it than to doubt it's existance and have it never find me.

  • Hello Mr. Smith,
    You made your site simple yet elegant. I see that you would like to draw closer to God. Now is a good time! I recommend the one true God, Jehovah.
    I want to help people to really get to know God, especially in these troubled times. Here is an important message for all of us from the Bible: 17 You make God tired with all your talk. "How do we tire him out?" you ask. By saying, "God loves sinners and sin alike. God loves all." And also by saying, "Judgment? God's too nice to judge." (Malachi 2:17) (Message Bible)

  • Wow.  Xanga actually featured something worthwhile for once.

    I'm a theist, and I am one not because of my upbringing but because that's what I think is most likely, given an objective analysis of the facts.

    You haven't reached the same certainty that I have, but you approach the question with an honesty and rationality that I find refreshing.

    Thanks for sharing.

  • I'm leaning towards being an agnostic dao bi-thiest, which means if there is a god, it'll be an eternally balanced hermaphrodite with the appearance of irrational and extreme mood swings.

    It also kind of makes the very notion of blasphemy the only blasphemy possible.Hallelujah! I know I don't know. You have found the philosopher's sponge, it's more absorbent that the stone but it kind of sucks to build a faith from

  • This post was amazing - so eloquent and wonderfully written. I truly applaud you because I can see your heart revealed in your honest, genuine questioning. You echo a lot of the valid questions and thoughts that I had as an atheist/agnostic once. Thereafter, I had a life-changing experience where God revealed his existence to me and saved me from my personal hell at the time.. I know not everyone has such a testimony (and certainly I wouldn't want anyone to go through something quite so tough) But it is the truth that for many, the leap of faith is a tough one to make especially when there seems no reason or need to. Your logical side clashes with your heart. And as for your questions, yes there are certainly answers and though I'm not going to go into all of them here - I trust that they will be revealed to you. I wanted to assure you that indeed, God heard your prayer.

    Some truly applicable help will come in the form of a book - "Letters from a Skeptic" - A Son Wrestles with His Father's Questions about Christianity. By Dr. Gregory A. Boyd and Edward K. Boyd (not sure if previous posters rec'd it already). In the book, an inquisitive and hard-hitting 74-year old Ed Boyd and his son Greg, a pastor, exchange a series of letters covering a variety of topics and questions, including essentially ALL of the questions you just wrote in your prayer. I'm not saying that this is going to be the end-all book for you..it's simply a resource and a well-fitting one at that. The way that Greg answers his father's letters is certainly unique.. there are no assumptions..it's incredibly intuitive and definitely tugs at the core of the human heart..and makes you think about age-old perspectives and ways of thinking. I truly hope that you will take a look at it. It will be worth the time especially as these are probably the most important questions you will ask in your life (and I am so impressed by your asking them).

  • to prove or not porve the existance of gof, or beleive or not to beleive doesn't really matter. what REALLY matters is to refarin from evil deeds aginst each other and to accept, respect and cherish each other.

    or humanity will keep on torturing its own kind for eternity

  • Very good writing, bringing into an essay what many agnostics think.

    @Parisian_Bandit - What you call "sob speech" is a thoughtful approach to God's existence or nonexistence. It is better than believing in something without seeing evidence for it, just because your parents believed or for some other stupid reason. If you feel a true connection with God that is great for you, the majority of the worlds population however does not, so questioning something in this way, weighing pros and cons for the existence of something is far away from a "sob-speech".

  • I find it curious that agnostics and atheists frame their reality/inquiries in a God vs. no God dichotomy, using only the monotheistic definitions of Deity, Divine, and worship they've been exposed to, and are quite willing to accept that "faith" and "religion" are synonyms, religion to them essentially being orthodoxy (correct belief, or "the right answers") rather than orthopraxy (correct practice including but not limited to functional virtues and hospitality)...and about deity instead of being nontheistic.

    I'd say people like that are still monotheistic though are in denial of it.

  • Since you use the word God, it is my assumption that you wouldn't be opposed to Jesus Christ the Son of God. If that's the case, and you don't have problems with searching in the Christian community, please check out this site: http://www.mecklenburg.org/

    It changed my life. I know that is irritatingly cliche and will induce a roll-of-the-eyes, but it's all I have. All I have are my words and my heart, and both have been changed because of this church.

    They have internet services, if you go to the website and click internet campus. There are several different times you can watch. The first fifteen minutes are music, which I personally do not particularly like, but maybe that's your thing. I beg you to please stick with it a few weeks, to see just how awesome he is. Jim is all about philosophy and theology, and he is filled with intelligence. Much more than can ever come across in this comment.

    I've been where you are, and I know where I am now. It's a huge, peaceful difference.

  • Not only is there no evidence for the existence of God, there is a mountain of evidence against it.

    Agnostics are wussies. Claiming to be Agnostic is the easy way out.

  • Why do yo hassel yourself with irrationality?

    1) just because you cannot prove that someting doesn exist DOESNOT MEAN IT ISNT THERE. God exist/no exist = no provable or refutable by any logic yet.

    2) stop looking for answers that may or ay not be there. One creator? Many? Alien speicies? Whcih interpretation of 'god' is correct? We = NO answers. Dont speculate, dont stress about it. We lackthe technology and wisdom to find out.

    Now continue to live your life please.

  • 2012.  May faith have its final battle, though it won't. I've had religion misused against me so many times.

  • I believe that when we try to find God, God will meet us halfway.

    I know that Jesus said this--

    "That
    servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or
    does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But
    the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be
    beaten with few blows."

    --which
    to me seems to indicate that even if we get it totally wrong, God takes
    our ignorance or our misunderstandings into account.  I know for
    myself, I find that to be an encouraging thought.

    I wish you success and relief in your search.

  • Bismillah (In the Name of Allah, the One True God)

    If God were to reveal Himself to us, then what would be the point of His testing our faith? If He were to come out to us as His true self and show us, then what would be the point? We would all become avid worshipers the second we saw Him. The true test of faith is to act on His commands, knowing that God is there without seeing Him. You say that creating is an act of curiosity. If God is curious, then it is only to see if we will worship Him as He deserves.

    We are limited in our understanding. We know from the skeptics of philosophy that our senses cannot be trusted, and neither can our intellect. At times when we are sick, good food tends to taste bad. Or when we are sad, all things that happen to us are seen in a negative light. We are limited in our intellect. We don't have the capacity to understand God. We don't have the ability to see Him because we are finite, and He is infinite. A finite being cannot even try to comprehend what is infinite.

    And we don't need to see Him to know that He is there, we have proof all around us. The rain falling and letting plants grow, every snowflake being different then the next, the fact that you get your food, if not everyday, then at least once. The sun rising each morning, the thousands and thousands of different galaxies. Just study the human body itself and that's enough of a miracle to make you certain of His existence.

    Could it have been a cosmic accident? Really, think to yourself, you know that He is there. And you know that if you are sincere, He will help you find Him.

    Look at different religions, and find what you feel is the truth. Don't look at the people who follow them, for every human is imperfect. Every man makes a mistake, almost daily. Otherwise, we would all be God. Don't look for the religion with the best followers, look for the religion with the best doctrine. Not one that caters to your wants and desires, but one that seems the most sensible to you. In your search, I advise you to look at Islam more carefully. And if you have questions about it, ask a scholar of the religion. Everyone has opinions, but only those who have studied something carefully can give you the facts. 

    Be sincere in your search. And, Insha Allah (God Willing), you'll find the truth.

  • Hey, thanks for becoming my friend. It does mean a lot to me and I am not being sarcastic or flippant. People are the most important things in this world. To be a friend of one is more important than to being a leader of thousands.

  • gsmith were you eavesdropping on my conversations with the Almighty One?  :)

    Awesome post!  One that should be the hearts cry of every single soul at one time in their life or another.

    As I shared in another post the cry of your heart and those that posted is prove positive that our Creator exists, and that it is not Him one has a struggle or problem with, rather it's His fan club.  I do not say this to be disrespectful.  One cannot come to know a rock star, a baseball hero, an Olympic gold winner, nor my dad or mom for that reason by things we say about them.   If we read "fan" mail only, we'd never have a relationship of our own, we'd have some sort of third party connection.

    Each living soul was created unique, and yet mankind tries so hard to recreate one another and themselves in the process in their image and understandings of Who the Almighty is.  Why mess with perfection?  Hence the mess out there.

    Every soul is that of the "prodigal" finding their way home.

      Ever look at the Milky Way?  It's made up of billions upon billions of stars.  Each one tiny part of the Milky Way.   Each person has a spirit, the Creator is Spirit.  Each person cries out to Him through that spirit He placed inside of us.  It's like we are all tiny stars, trying to find our place in the Milky Way.  Each star is NOT the Milky Way, but a part of it.  We are a part of our Creator, we have a part of Him, and we are searching for our existence, through coming to understand His existence.

    Or another way...
    If we could imagine that the Ocean is our Creator.....(just analogy's here) and each of us a drop of water.  Each drop is finding it's way back to The Ocean for oneness, fullness, completeness.

    Until one gets rid of all preconceived notions of who they are, of who The Almighty is, one will always be part of man's religions. 

    He is love.  Any teachings contrary to that are the opinions of man.  The only way to know this love, is to go home to Him, continue to build on this very relationship you have begun for your heart's cry can only be answered by Him.    No forced religion, rather a choice of a personal relationship, one walked out by His Son as a ever living example for us.  Dying to our ego self and living instead connected through our spirit to His Spirit, one through His Son.  Amazing truth that can only be experienced by those seeking.  I wish you joy on your journey, and am thankful to be on the same path :)

    Hope for tomorrow!

  • God does exist and He wants you to know Him.  The first step is to seek Him, but you cannot believe in Him without the faith that only He can give you.  Ask for the faith to believe and He will provide it.  Keep seeking and if you truely want to find Him, He will reveal Himself to you, along with the answers to some of life's hardest questions.  It isn't about religion, it's just about understanding your relatedness to the God who created you.  Once you understand that, the rest falls into place.

  • hi george,

    i came across your site through the featured weblog section on the front page.i find your honesty really refreshing and was curious as to what led you from being a christian (i saw on your profile that you stopped believing in God after going to the christian school) to where you find yourself today. 

  • @Soul_Pizza - Hey, your are right the words 'relationship with Christ are not found.'  However, I urge you to read what the "relationship" is about.  Don't knock it until you've read it.  The relationship is not the warm fuzzy "Jesus is my buddy" idea that scripture speaks of.  In fact the relationship has to do with, sonship, family, and other terms that we would associate with "relationships."  Also the theme of love is repeated over and over in the NT.  Love after all is a relational word.  "Relationship" is kind of spiritual short hand to describe all that "born-again" believers have in Christ.  Besides it really doesn't matter because the relationship first mentioned is a slave/master relationship.  No one had a "personal relationship with Christ" until they first realize they are slave either to the god of this world (Satan) or the God of eternity.  Slave first . . . Son second.  Just some food for thought.

  • @relaxolgy - The second greatest commandment actually takes care of that but then not too many people take it very seriously . . . hence the world we live in.

  • @werd_homies - . . . easy thoughtless way out . . . besides it begs the question if there is no evidence for God than how could there be mountains of evidence that something doesn't exist about something that doesn't exist.  hmmm. . . . logic and rational thinking do not follow with your statement.

  • there's a great book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel.  I also recommend "The Reason for God" by Tim Keller.

  • @timbole78 - what you just said does not make sense at all. There is evidence that a flat earth does not exist even though it doesn't exist. Just because something doesn't exist that doesn't mean that you can't have evidence against it. Maybe I should rephrase what I said. There is evidence against a judeo-christian god and any other concept of god that has been thought up by man. It also depends on your definition of god but I'm sure you know what I mean and you're just trying to pretend to outsmart me with your "logic." You improperly used the word "than" by the way, genius.

  • "The very act of creation alone is an
    expression of curiosity and love, so I find it hard to believe that you
    would go to the effort of creating us just to find ways to make us
    miserable." Is not that true.     And you MUST also remember that we are  not in the same state that we where in when God created us. God created us perfect and it is because of the fall of man and his sin (Lots of it is done in  the name of religion) But still sin and that sin is what is the cause all the misery and pain. God is Love, that is why he sent his Son to shed his blood for the remission of our sins.

  •      I applaude you in your search for and questioning of God.  I am a Christian, and I find myself questioning him almost every day.  He likes that.  Asking questions is often the greatest contributor to growth.  One point to take in mind is that man, in general, sucks.  Man's fall and failures, such as the Crusades, abortion clinic bombings, and such incidents, cannot be attributed to God, because he has revealed himself, according to scripture consistently as not only a God of justice, but as a God of love and grace.  In that truth, without Him, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we are condemned, because we suck.  Also, in spite of all the awful things done in His name, we must remember all the miracles, extraordinary, such as the healing of a blind man, and every day, such as the birth of a child. 

         Just because there is "scientific explanation" to any being or process, does not mean that it is not directed by God.  Who ever said God can't use science?  Who created science?  Our bodies pump blood by our heart, which starts in utero, "randomly", by what's called the bundle of His (named, actually for the man who discovered it, and nothing to do with God), and it's origin, as far as I know, is unexplainable by any scientist or surgeon.  This, to me, is just another event of, "Wow." 

       God will never "prove" himself.  That takes away the element of faith.  Without just having to believe in Him, He's just another "fact" in the books.   

  • "I don't believe in God because I don't believe in Mother Goose." (Clarence Darrow)

  • @timbole78 -

    Hey, your are right the words 'relationship
    with Christ are not found.'  However, I urge you to read what the
    "relationship" is about.  Don't knock it until you've read it.

    Oh, trust me...  I've read what the Bible does say about the relationship one should have, and I'm not necessarily knocking that part...  At least if by "knocking" you mean "disregarding..."  No, I understand what it says.  Which brings me to the next point...

    The relationship is not the warm fuzzy "Jesus is my buddy" idea that scripture speaks of.

    You're saying that Christians have got it wrong, or essentially made up a new way of thinking about it which ISN'T how the Bible describes it, which is essentially what I already said.  Let's face it, the warm fuzzy "Jesus is my buddy" mentality is a lot warmer than the Bible's description, so Christians go with that one.  Moving on...

    In fact the relationship has to do with, sonship, family, and other terms that we would associate with "relationships."

    Okay, I understand this...  The Bible ACTUALLY says that Jesus loves me like a family member and not a "buddy."  Of course, I don't really know anyone who would be okay throwing a family member into a fiery pit of eternal torture, but I guess that's a different discussion for a different day...  Or is it that you're only Jesus' family if you accept Him, otherwise He disowns you?

    Also the theme of love is repeated over and over in the NT.

    Ah, the love topic!  I've heard that for every passage about love in the Bible, there are two passages about hate and wrath.  IE the Bible talks twice as much about hate and wrath as it does about love, which, would make it a BIGGER theme, no?  It's almost like it's saying that it's more important NOT to be hated than it is to be loved. o.O  Just a thought.

    And I get the rest, it's not really worth repeating.  But you've basically echoed what I said...  Christians substitute the "buddy" mentality, which they made up to fit themselves, for the "family" mentality, which is more loving but also includes discipline and commitment.  It's easier to think of Jesus as a buddy because then He's always got your back...  But to think of Him as family is way too much commitment, and that also includes way too much "tough love."  Christians don't like this, so they make up their own way of thinking about it.

    So, my point still stands.  I know what the Bible DOES say, but I was making the point that Christians have taken that and made into something that suites themselves because we, as HUMANS, desire happiness and comfort over all else.  It makes me chuckle when Christians tell me that I can't be happy without God...  I'll be honest and blunt, I was MISERABLE when I was a Christian, and I desired better for myself, so I sought after that "better" feeling.  It seems as though too many Christians aren't finding happiness where they're "supposed" to find it, so they're looking elsewhere, either by changing their own rules or by completely leaving them all together.  If Christianity is so great, then why is this?

  • i raelly have to study, but i saw your blog and had to read it!!!!! i am like you also on this search.. and i've been reading scriptures to understand, but its so ahrd to do with evrything else going on. but .. this weeekend ill do some serious bible study. for right now, i just wanna say hi and study organic chemistryy haha!! and good luck on ur quest. ill befriend you!! and ill c omment more when i find out more okay?!

  • great thoughts man.

    God did create us in love.  And he loved (and still loves) us enough to give us the CHOICE to love him back.  We chose not to love him, evidenced by our disobedience.  The world is in the state it is by our own accord.  When sin entered the picture, it made this world an imperfect place.  I'm glad that God is loving enough to offer us a choice to love him back, and that we aren't all robots with no free will.  It makes me sad when I hear about people committing sinful acts and saying it was in God's name.  Those people are hypocrites, they are deceiving themselves.  God is perfectly just, and punishes sin yes, but perfectly loving and merciful too, and he extends that mercy to all who decide to love him back with a life that is obedient to his good and perfect will.  It doesn't mean life will be hunky dory, in fact God promises that hard times will come....but that's the world we live in.  We are to blame for it, we screwed up this world by ourselves.  God is wise enough to see everything, and he will let us go through the fire because it will refine us.  He teaches us through it, we are just too shortsighted to see that usually.  
    As for his existence, I personally see things the opposite as you.  Look at how ordered the universe is.  This perfect order cannot possibly come from chaos, over no matter how much time.  Looks at the creation around you, especially a person...and honestly try to tell yourself that it's all an accident.  It's foolishness and ignorance to attribute this all to anybody but the God of the universe, who in his infinite wisdom and power, created it all.God has made his divine nature and eternal qualities SO blatantly obvious in creation, it's literally screaming at you every moment in every place.  We just get so caught up in our own limited thinking and in the circumstances around us that we blame God for our problems, and we fail to recognize him for who he is, the owner and creator of everything.

    the bible says:  "If you seek me, you will find me, when you seek em with all of your heart"If you are legitimately seeking to know God, he is right there.  You don't have to look far, he's been next to you all along, he's not hard to find.  Be careful to not get caught up in all these foolish teachings and philosophies that man cook up to try to explain away life and the universe.  We are finite beings, we cannot possibly comprehend the infinite God on our own.  He has to reveal himself TO us, which he has, most obviously through his son Jesus Christ.  Seek Christ, and you will find the truth.  He himself says "I am the way the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father except by me."  

  • @werd_homies - 

    umm . . . sorry oh wise sage for the mistake with the word "than."  And you might just try to calm down a little.  I would not waste my time trying to change the mind of a professing atheist.  I was simply saying that you needed to rephrase yourself.  And you did quite appropriately.  I was not attempting to insult your intelligence so relax.  Nor was I trying to "outsmart" you with my logic."  Besides, the whole "flat" earth thing doesn't hold any water anyway, because we can observe the earth and know that it is not flat.  And evidence contrary to flat earth came by simple experience and observation.  And so the previous theory was found to be false by simple observation.  Until the first person circled the globe the “round earth” idea was still just a theory.  There were no observable repeatable facts prior to that.
    You simply cannot use the same formula to disprove God because you cannot observe God.  Romans 1 says that creation is proof enough and Psalm 19 tells us that creation declares the existence of God, but still you cannot observe Him.

    The ‘Christian God’ is just as much a theory (outside of faith) as the ‘no God.’ I agree with that.  But even the evidence is left to interpretation because our presupposition interferes with our interpretation of what we observe.  Your presupposition is that there is no God, mine, that there is.  So I will see observable repeatable facts as the design of a Creator, you will interpret them as the result of chance, or “natural law.”  Anyway, enjoy life and try not to hate Christians so much - Tim

  • @Soul_Pizza - I so agree with you.  The thing is that God never said that He loves everyone like family.  Only the elect.  But that doesn't drum up warm fuzzies either.  And I love what you say about commitment.  You couldn't be more right.  In reality, the reinvented Christianity is just another religion.  Biblical Christianity will bring fullness of joy (1 John 1:4). Anything less is a disappointing counterfeit.

  • with all my heart, i hope you find what you are searching for.

    i hope we all find what we are searching for.

  • Great post! It is very deep.  In my opinion, our way of thinking (people) are sometimes too narrow. Meaning, certain things are just too difficult for us to understand. 

    Also, your statement, "There is really no way of knowing if you exist or not without you revealing yourself to us in a way that we can all understand." He actually did reveal himself to us as Jesus Christ, who was born in a manger. Even though he was walking beside us, he was ignored him, many didn't believe him and cursed him. 

    Mark 28: One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "of all commandments, which is the most important?

    "the most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'hear, o israel, the lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind with all your strenght. The second is this: love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

    You have some excellent questions in which I hope you find the answers to. Keep your eyes open! : )

  • keep looking, you might find some pretty cool stuff.

    i'm in a similar searching process, and after all this time, i'm slowly finding peace with that i know and believe.

    good luck to you.

  • I understand.

    Today, I was thinking the exact same thing.
    And I came to a conclusion.

    Take Care<3

  • @timbole78 - There is solid evidence that the man Jesus never even walked on this earth let alone on water.

    There is also evidence that your God does not exist. The creation event itself defies the laws of physics which we have observed to be true. Jesus had the magical ability to change water into wine, instantly heal people with magic powers, and walk on water. What about the fact that he was born of a virgin. We have evidence that pregnancy occurs when an egg is fertilized by a sperm cell. So basically you are telling me that Jesus can manipulate matter and defy physics. You are also telling me that God must have come down from heaven and had sexual intercourse with Mary and released his sperm cells into her which then fertilized the egg and a son was born that was himself.

    Scientific observation alone is evidence enough against all that bullcrap. Your beliefs are based solely on the Holy Bible which is supposedly the infallible word of God yet it was written decades after Jesus' death by individuals who had never met him. Sorry I have to call bullcrap on that.

  • "Oh God, there have been many people throughout history (and are today)
    who have waved banners of religion and done horrible things in that
    name. "

    People get confused because some fools say that they believe in God and are wielding battles in "honor of God's name" while they really aren't.  They wield battles against homosexuality with murder, and hate with hate, and innocents with personal vendettas-- basically, for the wrong reasons.  There's a right way and the wrong way.  The right way can be found looking back at scripture.  If things don't coincide with Biblical Scripture, or they outright contradict it, then the actions are wrong.  War has been condoned by God in the past, but the somewhat recent massacres that are occurring in this world have totally not been made in the name of God.

    Horrible things do happen, but that doesn't mean that God wanted it happen.

  • knock, and He will answer. i've battled this for so long.. but please believe me.. He exists. all this going on in the world.. the ugliness.. it's all man made. i hope you find Him.. He's waiting for you.

  • maybe if you shaved your creepy mustache god would befriend you.

  • @eine_erdnuss - Lol!  I did that a LONG time ago.  About three years ago, to be exact.  That picture is a little old.

  • hello friend,

    here is something that was really encouraging to me. i hope it encourages you to keep searching too.

    "In recent months I have also
    become more and more convinced of the reality of a personal God. True,
    I have always believed in the personality of God. But in past years the
    idea of a personal God was little more than a metaphysical category
    which I found theologically and philosophically satisfying. Now it is a
    living reality that has been validated in the experiences of everyday
    life. Perhaps the suffering, frustration and agonizing moments which I
    have had to undergo occasionally as a result of my involvement in a
    difficult struggle have drawn me closer to God. Whatever the cause, God
    has been profoundly real to me in recent months. In the midst of outer
    dangers I have felt an inner calm and known resources of strength that
    only God could give. In many instances I have felt the power of God
    transforming the fatigue of despair into the buoyancy of hope. I am
    convinced that the universe is under the control of a loving purpose
    and that in the struggle for righteousness man has cosmic
    companionship. Behind the harsh appearances of the world there is a
    benign power. ... So in the truest sense of the word, God is a living
    God. In him there is feeling and will, responsive to the deepest
    yearnings of the human heart: thus God both evokes and answers prayers."

    - Martin Luther King Jr. (1960)

  • God, if you do exist, surely you had a reason for creating us other
    than just to watch us suffer.  The very act of creation alone is an
    expression of curiosity and love, so I find it hard to believe that you
    would go to the effort of creating us just to find ways to make us
    miserable.  Therefore, I find it hard to believe that you would reveal
    yourself in the form of religion, knowing full well how many would
    suffer and die as a result.  I have personally been witness to some
    horrible atrocities done in the name of religion that have left people
    dead or scarred for life.  There are many out there who have rejected a
    belief in religion or any form of God because of the traumatic
    experiences they have faced.  Will you truly punish these victims,
    forcing them to endure a second "Hell" after the "Hell" they have
    already faced in this life, all because they didn't believe (with good
    reason)?  How can this possibly be justified?  In general, how can such
    pain and tragic loss of life be for the "greater good?"  Could you not
    foresee what religion would ultimately lead to, that believers would
    torture and kill each other just to further their cause?  A reasonable
    explanation is that you could not foresee what would happen, meaning
    that - for all your powers - you still have limitations just like us. 
    Or perhaps the true revelation (if it exists) is not to be found in
    religion at all.  Then again, perhaps the very idea that you even exist
    was postulated and/or manipulated by those in power so that they might
    control people.  Perhaps the initially innocent belief in a god that
    doesn't exist grew way out of hand.  Regardless of the reason, I find
    it difficult to believe that any religion truly carries your message, at least not in the form that you intended.

    Religion is not entirely the culprit you make it out to be. Some religions do take things to the extreme, and some are taken so far out of perspective that nothing is left of the original purpose, yes, but there is at least one religion I know of that has changed many lives for the better. You may scoff and decide right off that my beliefs in the Catholic faith are skewed by myself being a member of said faith, however I have not always been so. I order to understand where I'm coming from I beg your forgiveness for having an extremely long-winded comment. I was raped when I was eight years old by my best friend's uncle. I turned away from God right then and there because I didn't understand why he had let that happen to me and I turned, instead to being wiccan followed by periods of atheism and agnosticism. What happened to me was monstrous, and it happens every day. People are murdered in the name of religion, in the name of people who don't exist, in the name of a million things. People are hurt everyday because of the actions of individual people who may be part of a religion but who do not stand for that religion but have taken it so far out of text that it does not resemble what the religion stood for. The Catholic church has made a clear stand on certain issues since its inception. Among these are the belief that we are not to judge ourselves or others, we have no way of knowing if we are going to heaven or to hell but that the only real way to go to hell is to turn your back on God's mercy and forgiveness. This is not to say that everything done by members of the Church have taken the religion into their own hands and doen extreme acts of cruelty because of it, for example the crusades or the inquisition. People were given free will by God and He will not take that away from us. He gave us the free will to turn towards His love and forgiveness or to turn away from it and to live in shadow. What the Catholic church stands for is a set of canons and dogmas that most people who call themselves Catholic are either ignorant of or that they refuse to except. People today pick and choose at their religion which leads to most of them being led astray by their own base desires and causing them to blame a religion which they know nothing about for things that happen to them based on their own choices or on the choices of others. Blaming a religion for something that someone did in their name without researching what that religion believes is like having your cousin commit a murder and have you be branded murderer for the rest of your life. All people are fallible, all people are capable of commiting atrocities beyond my imagination, that they do this int he name of a religion does not mean that that religion supports it. If you wanna learn anymore abou the Church just send me a message, I'm willing to talk about anything in all honesty, though because of my class schedule I maybe a bit slow in replying. God bless you and help you find the truth!

  • You've eloquently written out the thoughts that have plagued me for years.  I like to hope that a merciful God would have mercy on the souls of the, to use your term, "Desperate Agnostic," who searches throughout perhaps an entire lifetime for the truth.  We are unwilling to simply believe for the sake of believing, while recognizing that there is nothing inherently wrong with others who decide to do so.  We explore, we wonder, and we ask questions daily.  We do try.  

  • A lot of this is faith, and I hope that God (should God exist...I believe God does, but I don't KNOW) brings answers to your questions...and brings the same answers to me as well, since I have many of the same questions.

    Keep searching!

    - Josh

  • If you are truly searching for a solid case for the existance of God, Norman Geisler's "Unshakable Foundations" is perhaps the most convincing case I have come across... for either side actually.  It asks many questions like those you have posed here and approaches each issue from a logical standpoint.  Some sections are lible to make some peoples' heads explode... but other than that, I would highly recommend it.  If you want, I could touch on a couple of the points in the book so you can gauge for yourself if it is worth the read.  Regardless, I encourage you to keep searching.  Truth does exist... and so does reality for that matter.  The answers are out there.

  • When you place far too much importance on something you doubt so deeply you end up writting such pointless crap which goes nowhere. 

  • Just have faith. It's not the type of answers you are looking for. But, in the end, do you really need them? Faith is enough. :)

  • I'm much like you...through my own rigorous reasoning, I found that
    if God does exist, he (for lack of a better pronoun) isn't the God
    described by an religious doctrine...we simply give too much credit to
    ourselves if we claim to know what the absolute truth is.

    @Rebelling4Christ - Sorry,
    but I just have to ask...if faith is believing without seeing
    (figuratively speaking) how are you supposed to know that you're having
    faith in the right thing? I could come up with *any* conclusion about the truths of this universe and have faith that that's just the way it is.  Chances are I'd be wrong.  Hundreds of years ago, people were convinced that the earth was the center of the universe.  If Copernicus and his predecessors didn't question the validity of that idea and pursue it using logic and reasoning, faith would have led many to believe in the wrong thing.  One cannot simply have faith and expect to be right...It's fine to believe, but questioning is the correct way to do it.

  • @werd_homies - 

    Actually all the "bullcrap" you mentioned (not me) is typical atheistic rhetoric.  And as far as "solid" evidence that Jesus never walked on this earth is as you would call is, "bullcrap."  Simply unfounded statements drummed up by men with serious agendas to disprove Christ.  And no I didn't say nor would I ever say that God came down and had sex with Mary in order to fertilize here etc, etc.  More rhetoric.  Bottom line - You cannot believe in a God that is not also a miraculous God.  Any God short of that is just simply not God.  You don’t believe in Him I get that, that's your prerogative but why all the venom?  Please understand I am not trying to proselytize you.  I simply said your first statement needed restating and you did that quite eloquently so end of story.  And so I digress.

  • Wow. I have never seen so many long replies to any post. I can't add anymore than what has already been said here. I read your post with a smile. I would consider you more a "doubting Thomas" or a reluctant believer instead of an agnostic. 

  • Hey, god, if you've read this, I'm with gmith03!!

  • Wow, this is just... amazing! I am utterly speechless. You put all the emotions I felt about God for the past 5 years down. Right here. I'm just...
    Wow

  • iloved this. why is it rated d?

  • all i can say is thank you for honestly searching. that is SO good to know. 

  • This is funny. Do you ever question why you struggle so much with the concept of a personal god? Not all belief systems describe a cosmology that relies on faith in a preposterous "god" concept. The reason you wrestle is because you have not fully explored the possbilities out there. There are more important things going on here than whether or not God cares if we believe this or that and what happens in a supposed "afterlife." I mean, if you can question the existence god then you can question the idea of afterlife, yes? If I were you I'd be worrying more about the bottom of that bottle of Jack.

  • you don't have to understand everything to believe in something

  • This sounds like it's more of an atheist's prayer to me, mostly because of the opening lines.

    These questions are what led me to be an atheist and I can honestly say my life has been ten times happier since then.   My final prayer was about as desperate as yours (I was very young so it might have even been worse) but looking back I realized that desperation was mostly the result of religion teaching me that without it I couldn't survive.   I kind of see as an abusive relationship between me and the church; they tormented me with visions of fire and brimstone and the idea that even I, a little girl, could go to hell, but I was so sure I needed it I kept coming back for more.   Don't be afraid to be an atheist if that what you really think is the truth, it's not all that bad.   I live a happier, more fulfilling life, and I actually think my life has more meaning because it is finite and because I define its purpose.

  • To see that someone feels and thinks the same things as I is a relief. I feel that if there is a God that they would be forgiving of us for not understanding. They would be generous enough to give us as many chances as we needed to understand.

    "Live High. Live Mighty. Live Righteously."- Jason Mraz

  • A good, honest post.  I was where you are now.  Keep looking, you're closer than you think to finding the answer to your question of God's existence and his purpose of humans. 

  • Hope you find what you're looking for.

  • what if he exists?

  • how will you react?

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